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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Feb 17, 2009 6:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A-rod, A-fraud or A-roid....non dead

No doubt the old school guys were on greenies, bennies, whatever you want to call them...do I know Ted did or didn't? Well, I know Ted had 10/20 vision and was gifted w/an unusually beautiful swing and that Hank had wrists like iron and the ability to snap them incredibly fast (he always said his HRs weren't about strength but timing and quickness)...

The one thing we DO know is that 'roids are of another level of performance enhancing...strength building...the ability to recover faster from injury and prolong--even improve-- careers that should have been winding down (Bonds is exhibit A)...

But you make a fair point that
uppers" were prevlent in the 60's and 70's....ceven cocaine in the 80's (Tim Raines said he kept a vial in his back pocket and slid head first so as not to break it)...but there has been plenty of opportunity for Hank and Ted's contemporaries to call either of them out and no one ever did (Ted had plenty of enemies, as did Hank...both for different reasons)...all i'm saying is you cannot equate the power of steroids w/amphetamines for what they can do for a player....& as I said before, the modern day players already had tremedous advantages over the old school that had nothing to do w/drugs...now you add drugs far more powerful and enhancing to the mix and you have frauds like Bond and ARod "breaking" records the old school guys worked harder to get.

Look, in the end, you could make a case for ALL baseball "records" being fraudulet: Ty Cobb had the most hits (pre-Rose), BUT he also never faced some of the best black pitchers b/c those guys were banned. That taints even Ruth's 60 HR record.

But I just cannot give ARoid a pass on the whole "he answered all the questions put to him" angle...because based on what he was prepared to get away with (i.e. going into the Hall as the best HR hitter ever, and all the time smiling and bragging about his 'work ethic'...it's just sickening. And I dont give a damn what uniform he wears.

If he and Bonds and mcgwire and the lot had the balls to come out and say 'we were willing to knowingly cheat to be the best', THEN i'd at least say 'fine, you admitted it'....but it's the politician-like subtrefuge and the fact that there ARE still players who played their whole careers clean and worked their asses off (Ryne Sandberg is one) who get passed over for guys like A-Fraud until they get caught.

AFraud knew he was toast and the Yankees begged him to head it off at the pass before spring training started...hence the Gammons interview, and today's prepared statement.

saddest of all? Aroid and Bonds both could have done what they set out to do without the drugs. They were both that good. But you cannot honestly say Aroid should be named the all time HR leader if he passes Aaron (notice I dont say Bonds)now that we know what we know about 3 whole years of his career. (and btw, in your heart of hearts, do you REALLY believe him when he says those were the only years he shot up?) Remember, this is the guy who girly slapped the ball out of Arroyo's glove in the '04 ALCS and did his best "who me? What did I DO?" impression when the umps called him out.

This is not an honorable individual and he does not deserve a pass. Not now, not ever. He had every advantage (as did Bonds) and he pissed it away. That's the bottom line.

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Poster: WHARFRAT Date: Feb 17, 2009 7:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A-rod, A-fraud or A-roid....non dead

Very well said Grendle,
Excellent post and reply. We could go back through the years and, there will always be something to bring up.
So many variables.
Another fact, back in the day's, You were lucky to have 5
pitchers that could throw every few days. Now it's like 11-12 pitchers on every team. How many complete games lately
compared to the golden years?

Baseball will never be what it was when, You and I were
watching our heros play the game. And there was cheaters back then as well. They just didn't get caught. Well except
for a few. Perry? Niekro? Corked bats as well. I'm not saying that A-fraud deserves a pass. I'm just saying he stood there and took it on the chin, As he deserved it as well. Better then any other player has so far. Then agian,
I'd piss in your ear and tell you it's raining for $3O Mill
a year too. Your points are valid, And no, He would not have
come clean had he not gotten caught. Would you?

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Feb 18, 2009 2:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A-rod, A-fraud or A-roid....non dead

fair question, WR...and I guess the answer is, no, had I not gotten nabbed I would not have come forward either.

My point is: I'd like to think that if I was fortunate enough to have AFraud's extraordinary talent, I wouldn't have taken the damn things to begin with.

again, that's why i don't sympathize with him, no matter how many crocodile tears he cries.

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Poster: sparky999255 Date: Feb 18, 2009 6:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A-rod, A-fraud or A-roid....non dead

If Ryne Sandberg played today people would be accusing him of using steroids. His homerun numbers took too big a jump.

As I read everyone's posts about steroids on this site and others I found this list that clears it up:

1. If a player improves his performance, it's because he's on steroids.

2. If a player falls off, it's because he quit using steroids.

3. If a player continues to do well at an advanced age, he's definitely on steroids.

4. If a player has been good for years, he's been juicing for years.

5. If a player is big, it's because the steroids made him that way.

6. If a player is small and lean, it's because he's only using steroids for recovery.

7. If a player is against testing, it's because he's on steroids.

8. If a player is for strict testing and tough penalties, it's because he's trying to trick us into not realizing he's on steroids.

9. If there's an accusation that a guy has used steroids, it's definitely true.

10. If there's no accusation, he's hiding it well.

Steroids have been in baseball since the 80's for sure and maybe before.

Amphetamines have been in baseball since the 40's.

If neither of them helped a player, I'm guessing they wouldn't use them.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Feb 18, 2009 7:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A-rod, A-fraud or A-roid....non dead

Sparky,

If your implication (i'm not sure from your post exactly what it is) is that since illegal substances have been in baseball since the 40's and everyone is suspected of steroid use anyway, so get over it, it doesn't matter....well...wrong.

Because all it takes is ONE honest player...ONE guy who played his whole career clean...to make the rest fraudulent. And there is certainly more than one to draw inspiration from. No matter how many AFrauds have polluted the sport.

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Poster: sparky999255 Date: Feb 18, 2009 7:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A-rod, A-fraud or A-roid....non dead

Grendel,

I apologize if I gave the impression that I thought people should just "get over it."

I just believe that it's been blown out of proportion.

You're right, one honest guy makes the rest fraudulant. Whether it's April Rod (steroids) or Hank Aaron (amphetamines) or Gaylord Perry or Don Sutton or Whitey Ford (altering the baseball). Unfortunately it's tough to find the "honest" guy.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Feb 18, 2009 7:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A-rod, A-fraud or A-roid....non dead

Tough, yes. And it may be that it was only the "ordinary" players--guys who hit .250 and were used as utility guys most of their careers who are the real heroes of the game.

What angers me is that baseball is inherently a game of FAILURE. You're not SUPPOSED to succeed most of the time...that's part of what makes it so unique and beautiful. Think about it: If you have a .300 career lifetime batting average there's a good chance there's a spot waiting for you in the HOF. That means out of the ten times you come to the plate, on average, you FAIL to get a hit 70% of the time! What other sport--what other area of life for that matter--is so forgiving and ready to reward such futility?

And yet that's still not good enough for guys like Bonds and ARoid.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Feb 18, 2009 8:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A-rod, A-fraud or A-roid....non dead

sounds like William Tell's dating history


;-p

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Feb 18, 2009 8:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A-rod, A-fraud or A-roid....non dead

WT would do a lot better with the chicks if he'd quit inviting them over to his pad to listen to 26-minute versions of "Viola Lee Blues" from 1968 as music to get them "in the mood."

p.s. We love you Tell...we just think you have a problem ;-)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 18, 2009 10:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A-rod, A-fraud or A-roid....non dead

Hey, the good news is I last all the way thru it...so what if they've fallen asleep?

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Feb 18, 2009 12:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A-rod, A-fraud or A-roid....non dead

Now, see, that's funny.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Feb 18, 2009 8:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A-rod, A-fraud or A-roid....non dead

"WT would do a lot better with the chicks if he'd quit inviting them over to his pad to listen to 26-minute versions of "Viola Lee Blues" from 1968 as music to get them "in the mood."


Best laugh of the day so far!!! :)

excellent!!

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 18, 2009 10:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A-rod, A-fraud or A-roid....non dead

Yeah, well I suppose you and Grendel are gonna tell me you use Donna's best PITB effort to get them outta the house? Hmmm, not a bad idea. Unless she thinks that sound is the wife coming in the room...

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Feb 18, 2009 10:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A-rod, A-fraud or A-roid....non dead

i think "Donna's Best" partially contributed to the death of my dear cat.

the next cat will most assuredly have the comfort of living in a "Donna-Free-Zone"

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Poster: Pork Soda Date: Feb 17, 2009 6:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A-rod, A-fraud or A-roid....non dead

103 other players tested positive for steroids in 2003. That's 5 percent of Major League Baseball was doing steroids in 2003.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsvP4p94pv8

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